The UFO Challenge//Debunkers Fail Every Time!!

The UFO Challenge By Stanton Friedman

As a nuclear physicist who has had a serious interest in flying saucers since 1958, I have reached four major conclusions:

The evidence is overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other words, SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. Most are not.

The subject of flying saucers represents a kind of Cosmic Watergate, meaning that some few people in major governments have known since July, 1947, when two crashed saucers and several alien bodies were recovered in New Mexico, that indeed SOME UFOs are ET. As noted in 1950, it's the most classified U.S. topic.

None of the arguments made against conclusions One and Two by a small group of debunkers such as Carl Sagan, my University of Chicago classmate for three years, can stand up to careful scrutiny.

The Flying Saucer story is the biggest story of the millennium: visits to Planet Earth by aliens and the U.S. government's cover-up of the best data (the bodies and wreckage) for over fifty years.

Since 1967 I have lectured on the subject 'Flying Saucers ARE Real' at more than 600 colleges and over 100 professional groups in all fifty US states, nine Canadian Provinces, twelve cities in England and nine in other countries, with only eleven hecklers. I have also appeared on hundreds of radio and TV shows. Overall, I have probably answered about 35,000 questions about UFOs and secrecy.

It's clear that over 97% of the people have NOT read any of the five major scientific studies I discuss, and are unaware of the mountains of evidence that support my conclusions. They are also unaware of the scientific data, as opposed to tabloid nonsense. However, it is also clear from the Opinion Polls and from my own experience that indeed most people accept the notion that SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. The greater the education, the MORE likely an individual is to accept this proposition. In an October 25, 1995, Oxford University Debate on the resolution 'Planet Earth is being visited by intelligent extraterrestrial life', the affirmative side, of which I was a part, garnered 60% of Debate Union Member votes on the question. Ninety-two percent of 100,000 people calling during a TV Debate in London on June 27,1997, said Earth has been visited by aliens!

The problem is NOT that there is not enough evidence to justify my conclusions; but that most people, especially the noisy negativists, are unaware of the real, non-tabloid evidence.

Debunkers seem to employ four major rules:

What the public doesn't know, we certainly won't tell them. The largest official USAF UFO study isn't even mentioned in twelve anti-UFO books, though every one of those books' authors was aware of it.

Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up.

If one can't attack the data, attack the people. It is easier.

Do one's research by proclamation rather than investigation. It is much easier, and nobody will know the difference anyway.

Many major media people will concede that if indeed aliens are visiting earth, that would be a major story. But because they take great pride in their KNOWLEDGE of major stories, if this were happening they would know about it. But they don't. Therefore, anybody who says visits are real must be a crackpot.

I have noted four major reasons why the big names in science and journalism haven't jumped on the pro-UFO bandwagon:

Ignorance of the data. Scratch a debunker and one usually finds somebody who is putting down what he is not up on.

Fear of ridicule in sponsoring a thesis (only about ten have been submitted relating to UFOs) if a professor, or sponsoring a detailed reportorial investigation if an editor. I check all my audiences and find that, while in agreement with polls, 10% have had a sighting but only 5-10% of these witnesses have been willing to report what they saw. Biggest reason? Fear of ridicule.

Ego. If aliens were visiting Earth, they would call a press conference or ask to talk to the National Academy of Sciences. They haven't, so aliens must not be visiting. Flying saucers finish the job Copernicus started in taking man out of the middle of the universe. Priests fought Copernicus's ideas. Today guys in lab coats, rather than priestly robes, fight alien visitations.

Failure to use our knowledge of technology to understand UFO behavior. They say 'It is impossible,' rather than 'I don't know how.' Despite the absurd claims of certain ancient academics and fossilized physicists, it is clear on the basis of solid engineering studies that trips to nearby stars are feasible with round trip times shorter than the average person's lifetime

No it isn't. As was the case 50 odd years ago when the idea of aliens visiting Earth became popular we have lots of interesting anecdote but no convincing physical evidence.

tim gueguen 101867

tim gueguen 101867

Art don' need no steeeenkin' physical evidince, he's got all those beliefs, in what passes for a brain, which in Wholeflaffer case means..... 'the lights are on upstairs, but nobody is home.'

wrote:

<snip>

*IF* we are indeed being visited by aliens driving UFOs, then:

a) they are way more advanced than we are, and b) they don't want us to know they are watching.

Therefore, don't piss them off by calling attention to them.

Hey another opinion. Wow! I am unimpressed. Give us some physical evidence!!

From Holeflapper? Never. It's never happened, and never will. Unless you consider physical evidence old material from other people's websites.

evidence!!

Evidence from (f)Artie? Don't hold your breath. Anyway, I have a question. I readily admit I'm not an expert on the life and times of Stanton Friedman, but can anyone tell me whether Friedman has ever published anything of note on the subject of physics as opposed to his many books on UFOs? Has he made any significant contributions (or any at all, for that matter) in the field of, or held any sort of job at all actually having to do with nuclear physics? In the more than 30 years since I first heard of Friedman, I've not seen a single thing to indicate that he has. From what I can see, he makes his living as a UFO lecturer rather than as a physicist. As far as I can tell, he's hardly the poster boy for credibility. All in all, he doesn't strike me as the sort of 'expert' I'd want supporting my cause. <G>

1. There's no unambiguous evidence of the phenomenon.

2. A lot of folks *want to believe* in the phenomenon.

3. The Frothing True Believers will buy *anything* that furthers their belief in the phenomenon, and/or agrees with their preconceived notions.

4. UFO books, interviews, articles, films and lectures pay *way* better than physics research.

Thank you and please pick up a copy of my books on the way home this evening.

Stanton Friedman

In easily verifiable claims, the person initiating the claim normally assumes the burden of proof. Not doing so, however, should probably not be considered a fallacy. **The fallacy occurs whenever someone shifts the burden of proof to avoid the difficulty of substantiating a claim which would be very difficult to support.**

San Jose State University online text

No proof of that at all. I want to believe that UFO Debunkers are human, but they seem to lack a soul, so that means they aren't human. - - - You Don't Have To 'Believe' In UFOs Any Longer By James Neff

Whenever I hear the question 'do you believe in UFOs?' there often arises an instant feeling of frustration which quickly rolls over into fatigue and a sense of pity. To most of those who have devoted even a reasonable portion of time to acquiring an understanding of the phenomenon, the term 'belief' simply doesn't, and should never, apply. To use this expression shoves the UFO over into the category of religion or even fantasy, and nothing could be more inaccurate or counter-productive. It takes absolutely no leap of faith, no mustering of imagination or whimsy for any rational mind to realize what is already a proven reality: UFOs exist and are as real and the Pacific Ocean or the Rocky Mountains (and may have been here just as long). The simple fact of the matter is, UFOs (and whatever may be INSIDE them) are a real, verified and massively documented phenomena ... but much of our culture and language perpetuate and cling to the erroneous notion that we're dealing with some kind of specter or myth.

One might 'believe' in fire-breathing dragons or fairies ... yet, there is no evidence whatever that either of these exist. However, one need only look at the facts now in evidence to see that 'flying saucers' (not merely 'unidentified flying objects' do, indeed, exist. Those who know UFOs are 'real' need to make a serious effort to cease using and condoning that negative terminology of doubt inspired by our disinformation-driven culture. 'Are you aware of UFOs?' (i.e., 'have you been educated on the existence of flying saucers?' should have replaced 'Do you believe in UFOs?' in both text and conversation long ago. We no longer are soliciting people to 'believe'. Instead, we are (or should be) asking the uninformed to become educated to the facts. The issue of visitors to this planet, wherever (or whenever) they originate, is as vital an issue as any world geopolitical, religious, or economic affair or policy. In fact, it is probably far more important.

It is simply a matter of education. The evidence we have for the existence of unidentified flying machines, even if we toss out all photographic evidence and all abduction accounts or close encounter experience testimonies from the most reliable, credible civilian experiencers, is...massive. Even if we dismiss the most credible testimony and eyewitness accounts, the evidence is...enormous. What remains is a nearly a century of 'expert' interaction with flying saucers (and other shaped craft) under extremely scientific, verifiable, and examinable circumstances. I am speaking of the countless military and commercial pilot interactions with these remarkable, unknown machines, in situations where often entirely empirical testing of data has been recorded. One could not ask for a much better 'test lab' for the UFO phenomenon than in the cockpit of a military fighter or commercial airliner.

In both situations there are one, or more, specialists in the field of atmospherics and aerodynamics in a 'flying laboratory,' well-equipped with scientifically-approved and understood instrumentation which can record and note verifiable time frames, locations, altitudes, longitudes, latitudes of the UFO phenomena. Additionally, and obviously, there is also (in countless cases) verification by radar

Hey, if UFOs are as 'real and (sic) the Pacific Ocean or the Rocky Mountains' then where is the hard unambiguous evidence of them? We can see, examine and touch things at the Pacific and the Rockies

:>>2. A lot of folks *want to believe* in the phenomenon. :> :>No proof of that at all. I want to believe that :>UFO Debunkers are human, but they seem to :>lack a soul, so that means they aren't human. :>- - - :>You Don't Have To 'Believe' In UFOs Any Longer By James Neff

:> :>Whenever I hear the question 'do you believe in UFOs?' there often arises an :>instant feeling of frustration which quickly rolls over into fatigue and a sense :>of pity. To most of those who have devoted even a reasonable portion of time to :>acquiring an understanding of the phenomenon, the term 'belief' simply doesn't, :>and should never, apply. To use this expression shoves the UFO over into the :>category of religion or even fantasy, and nothing could be more inaccurate or :>counter-productive. It takes absolutely no leap of faith, no mustering of :>imagination or whimsy for any rational mind to realize what is already a proven :>reality: UFOs exist and are as real and the :>Pacific Ocean or the Rocky Mountains (and may have been here just as long). The :>simple fact of the matter is, UFOs (and whatever may be INSIDE them) are a real, :>verified and massively documented phenomena ... but much of our culture and :>language perpetuate and cling to the erroneous notion that we're dealing with :>some kind of specter or myth.

: Hey, if UFOs are as 'real and (sic) the Pacific Ocean or the Rocky : Mountains' then where is the hard unambiguous evidence of them? We can : see, examine and touch things at the Pacific and the Rockies

I can't touch the Moon, so it's not real.

It only takes one witness to send a man to the gallows, but over 100,000 signed reports from American airline pilots means NOTHING. Their just a bunch of liars, trying to get fired?

Well unkeljack,
I don't think it surprises you that those controlling things place their attention
upon that which they can use in order to manipulate
the public. But of course, they are doing what they do for our own good. They only tell us things we can "handle". Our good "big brother".

What the hell are they doing to my puter? OMG :omg:

Why in heavens name would we show you anything but the door.

the historical record shows alien visitation and UFO's back to Sumerian and Babylonian times. all cultures through all recorded history report alien visitation. the ancients are very sorry they didnt have their handycams on them at the time. but they did record them as best they could.

One of the things that I study is why do UFOs crash? Knowing the number recovered, would be a big help. Several possibilities: The ones that crash, are not piloted by the race that created them. They are being flown by teenagers. The 2 that crashed at Roswell, may have been struck by a Mega-Bolt of lightning, and they are 10 to 100 times as powerfull as a normal flash. As far as them giving so many people medical exams, it's a ruse, a game, they are waiting for us to get the courage to challenge them. If an animal that we were going to examine, looked us right in the eye and said: "What the hell do you think your doing asshole"? Things would change. If your ever picked up tell them to "Get Screwed, We Know What Your Up To" and you violating out airspace, and you just kidnapped me, that carrys the Death Penalty. What kind of a bunch of degenerates are you? You say this is your Planet? So, who in hell gave it to you? And tell that insect lookin weirdo to quit stareing at me with those big bug eyes,before I break a wing off and beat him to death with it. You know I don't like Bugs, so what do you do, you bring in this Preying Mantis lookin son-of-a-bitch, to piss me off. Unkeljack <<<< Pulls out a can of RAID and starts chasing Bugs around the saucer. If your out and about a lot, you should chew tobacco, that's so you can spit the juice in Bugs eyes. Also, if you have gas, let it loose, in the smaller saucers that knocks em dead. <POOooooooooooOOFF) Cheezer Cheezer If all else fails, grab one of that bugs 6 legs and Hump it. Those big eyes on so many Aliens aren't eyes, there seeing devices. Think of night vision googles and then develope them for about 1 million years.

Hammer: In a recent post, you commented that Big Brother tells us what they think we can handle. So, there is a conspiricy...sort of. But when I was briefed in 61, their main concern was panic involving the older and religious. They said that they will gradually let it slip out. Which is happening. Documents and people who were directly involved are now very old and many want to tell what they know. The very act of briefing me, was a risky manuver, when you think about it. The Air Forces document showing that the "Ballon Wreckage" was flown away, to another base. Would anyone other than a raw recruit, fail to recognize a weather ballon? They don't launch ballons of any but the smallest, when severe T-storms are in the vicinity. As you know a baloon as big as the one they claimed was found spread over a large area, is launched, it's takes a large crew, of trained specialists. It was 2 Saucers. I think they were too close to or one was hit by what scientists are now calling Mega-Bolts. If a Mega-Bolt hit a 747 it would just create a Fireball. In going back over cases closely examined by the FAA, they think that several planes were brought down by a Mega-Bolt. One of the craft may have taken a direct hit and momentarily lost it's navagation equiptment, then crashed into the other one. There were sever T-storms raging, when Matt Brazel, heard the loudest thunder clap, he'd ever heard. But again, they have a good reason for going slow, any population that would vote for Bush "TWICE", would freak out if faced with certain realities. As an example, there are those, called "The Birthers", that actually contend Obama isn't a citizen. See, they aren't smart enough to realize that, he has a birth certificate, and besides anyone can get a fake one. But, today they can tell the age of the paper and the ink. The point is, fools follow what their friends accept. We need more Jim Joneses, to eliminate more dummies.

Actually Susan, they did a pretty good job leaving behind Rock and Cave drawings, that endure till today. I have a VHS Tape that I recorded at least 8 years ago. It's in a cave, that wasn't exposed untill about 1940. In the foreground, there's a dude with a helmet on. There are cables and connections clearly visible. A ways off, in the drawing, there stands something in a spacesuit, complete with antenna and aiming a pistol at something. Behind him is a very modern looking Flying Saucer. This cave was accessed in about 1940 in Afganistan or Pakistan, when the water fell and access to the cave was possible. Think about this, where would a person get the idea for a spacesuit, 14,000 years ago? If it was faked, how did the author know about spacesuits in 1940? In his hand, the closest Alien, GOD, had a coiled up hose, in his hand He was wearing gloves. If it were faked in 1940, where did the author get the idea for the antenna on the guy with the gun?

T Hammer
This is in answer to your last offering!.


Author : hammer
Comment:
This is to you Unkeljack,
as with many Americans, my family came from Germany in 1770. They didn't fight the americans though, they fought the British. They were fleeing the mercenary soldier slavery from the state from which they came, in other words Hessians. I was brought up a mormon so that sort of makes me a knowledgeable genealogist. Excuse me while I put out my cigarette. But you wanted me to tell you why I believe we have a soul. I'm presuming that's a rhetorical question. Outside of my own personal experiences with life after death, I would think that anyone who gives the question five minutes thought would already know the answer. But, if you want my opinion, to something I can't comprehend, I'll tell you. It starts off with the reality of our situation. Have you ever held in your arms, the body of a dead person, who a few hours, or days earlier, were alive and communicative? Yes, my mother died in my arms. That's all you need to do. But if you haven't had that experience, what do you see when you see a growing tree? I see the wonder of how particles can combine to form all that we see. What do you see when that tree is cut down and sawed into boards? I would love to see all trees left alone, but I also have a shop where I have taken used pallet boards and turned them into furniture. I think wood is beautiful and renewable. I’m looking forwards to the increased use of Bambo, it’s kind of a miracle product. Every living thing has a soul. No evidence! It is part of the intelligence that created the material us. A God or Creator or other of the 4,000 Gods, did not come here to help us. The intelligence, or eternal God, that created us in material form, is eternal which has no beginning and has no end. It is useless for us to try and conceive of God. That’s not a problem, “All the Biblical Gods were Aliens”. Who do you think created all of this that we call reality? All that’s necessary is the previously mentioned Particles and Gravity. I can assure you it wasn't Madison Avenue. Extant from my own experience, everyone has held in his or her hands a dying bird, or small animal. You know when the life force has left the body. If one needs more proof than that, they should go to Cal Berkeley. I needed more proof than even Cal Berkeley could offer me. I know they haven’t recognized certain facts. One example: In recent years, we have found many Megalithic buildings. Many of them underwater. Archeologists don’t want to discuss these structures. There are megalithic structures all over the Earth. There are ruins at a place called something like Puma Punta. There is a huge area of manufactured stone works. Some of the blocks, weigh as much as 800 tons. Some were cut with something like diamond bits, but I believe they used Lasers. Hammer, what and interesting soliloquy. ß--- Did I spell that right, my Puter didn’t Puke?

Unkeljack

hammer: I finally got my meds. Within 1 hour, my brain went back to normal. Once again I was amazed that a little tiny pill, can change your thought processes, so radically, that you can do really bad things. And, I want to thank you for the posts, it really helped to have someone with a brain to talk to. Thanks Dude.

Hi Unkeljack,
If the meds work for you, God bless you. As for me, I wouldn't take them. You can, with your will, change the polarity of your thinking. Stop thinking of the negative things in your life and start thinking of the positive possibilities. It is a law of the universe. I understand, you feel helpless to change your existence. That's why most people feel helpless and take drugs to make everything better. But that kind of thinking is what is keeping us slaves. Do you understand what I'm telling you? Through your will, that means, you can decide for yourself the way you want to feel, and in doing so, effect the lives of not just yourself, but others. What I'm telling you is this: take control over your thoughts. The more positive thoughts you have, the more you can control your environment. The mind is divided between the masculine and feminine. The masculine sends the will to the feminine. The feminine creates that which the will of the masculine wants. Therefore, send your will to the feminine part of your brain, and she will create it. You've got to realize that there is a law of attraction. This knowledge is eons old. If you continue to think negatively, you will get negative results. Even if you're a negative thinker, throw those thoughts out and force yourself to believe that through your thought and will, you can change things. Believe me, I've tried it, and it works. That is what our brothers and sisters who man the UFOs want us to learn. So my friend, try living witout an ersatz consciousness. It's in your power to change your reality. Just trust yourself and try it. Just do it. God bless you.

hammer: Strangely enough, if you were around here you'd find me one of the most positive people you know. I have quit taking Elavil before, the last time, I had a shotgun and was headed for Riyte-Aid, but CJ caught me. I was amazed years ago when I read Readers Digest about how LSD was discovered in France. It's Lysergic-Dimethel-Sulfide and it would have been LDS except for the mormons. LDS - Latter Day Saints. Buit anyway, I've been working on Science papers, for years. I just sent a paper to Proffesor Geoff Marcy. I've written him before and he's a great guy. He's discovered 151 of the approx. 209 found. I wrote him about how to detect Micro=Lensing events at the location of Sag A*. The 3.5 million Solar mass Black Hole at the center of our Galaxy. If it's there, and I believe it is, there should be constant lensing events. And I sent a detailed plan to detect these events, using very-far red optical telescopes, or Radio Telescopes. I have been on a quest since 1947. I will stop when they throw dirt in my face, that's why I was put here.
JR
Hammer I enclosed a pic I took over in Eastern WA and wanted to see if I could upload things, let me know if you get it, OK?

Hammer: Yet another lie to get us to get a shot, so they can control your mind and get you to commit suicide. The attached article is obviously a FRAUD. There is no H1N1 virus, Ob